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What are you playing?; Re-shelled

#1 User is offline   Evolution Icon

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 11:52 PM

Somehow this game slipped under my radar when it was first announced, but I picked up the Turtles in Time remake and after playing two levels my initial impressions are: amazing.
Can't wait to get a dedicated group of 4 to sit down and play the game. Only played Michelangelo and Leonardo... and leo was a much stronger fighter. Unfortunately :(
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:12 AM

I used to play the crap out of the original Turtles In Time, fun stuff.
Mikey's my favorite turtle, but it makes sense for Leo to be a stronger fighter.

Played the Batman: Arkham Asylum demo, much more of a gauge than the combat demo I played before. Damn man, I can't wait for this game. It's thus far my most anticipated game this year.

3.2 in WoW was a big patch. A lot of new stuff, fun changes, etc.
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:53 AM

Well it certainly makes sense according to the fiction of the show, but you might hope that in a video game they would take some effort to make all 4 turtles equal. But it's a small issue, I still owned as Mikey even if I could've owned more with Leo. I bet Don is a beast too :D
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 04:10 PM

I think the last turtles game I played was one of the snes ones..christ that's a long time ago. As for myself, finally started on Thief 3; finding it a lot better than the first two, though I miss my rope arrows. And on that note..off I go for more taffing and stealing.
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 07:46 PM

QUOTE (Evolution @ Aug 7 2009, 05:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well it certainly makes sense according to the fiction of the show, but you might hope that in a video game they would take some effort to make all 4 turtles equal. But it's a small issue, I still owned as Mikey even if I could've owned more with Leo. I bet Don is a beast too :D


I'd rather it be made where each turtle brings something unique to the table, each being good at one aspect, bad at another. Enforces more of a cooperative element. And by comic standard Raphael is actually the strongest turtle in a melee fight, though the most reckless. I hate having four identical characters in a game emphasizing on a cooperative level. This was one of my faults with Left4Dead.
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:03 PM

yeah, well that's why you're not a developer Xeo; you clearly don't have a very strong understanding on game design, or what makes a game good (if that weren't already obvious considering your disinterest in Half-Life 2)

"I'd rather it be made where each turtle brings something unique to the table, each being good at one aspect, bad at another" this is ambiguous. As it's written, I agree. However, you need to define "aspect" to really make a statement worth talking about. If Leo was good at one thing and Mikey was good at another thing, you'd be right. However, it's hard to make a case that, and im only talking about this specific game, Leo and Donny are not superior choices to Raph and Mikey.

When you have 2 choices that are clearly better choices than the other 2, this does not 'enforce' (encourage would've been a better word) co-operation at all: in fact, it encourages the weaker players to rely on the stronger players OR try to make up for their inferiority with reckless behaviour (jumping into a group of strong foot soldiers alone for the sake of points, for example).

Similarly, Left 4 Dead would've been a lot worse if all 4 characters weren't equal - Maybe Valve would be able to create pros/cons for each character (if anyone can, they can) but more than likely one or two characters would stand above the rest, and people would want to play them more than the others. It depends on how they would be different, of course. It would absolutely horrible if only Louis could use the sniper rifle, only Francis could wield the assault rifle, etc. It's a restriction on the player that's ultimately just there for the sake of difference.

As Left 4 Dead is now, you still have the ability to specialize your character - it's your choice. So Valve made the right decision: those groups who want each player to fill a specific role may still do so (and almost all groups do: for example my traditional role in l4d is shotgun support, mainly keeping others alive. This is really ideal game design: you are free to play how you like, and others are free to play how they like. If Valve forced play styles on the characters than it would simply be a worse game. Having four identical characters in a co-op game is definitely a bad thing: fortunately, l4d is not an example of such a game. "This was one of my faults with Left4Dead." I'm glad you said "my faults" because that's at least accurate: it's not a fault of the game, but your fault for having such a hasty opinion.

Getting back to the Turtles, their personalities are what makes them unique. It is the obligation of the story/fiction to deliver that. Ultimately, I should not have to sacrifice being my favourite turtle just because I know I'll perform better as another.
In this case, Ubisoft should have taken a page out of Castle Crasher's book.
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Posted 09 August 2009 - 03:56 PM

The important thing to keep in mind in this process is balance. Where one turtle falters, he should be able to make up for this in another area. This enforces that each brings something unique to the game.

A great example of this is actually in a fairly lackluster game, but not for this reason. Resident Evil Outbreak brought a slew of characters, each with advantages and disadvantages over one another. Some started with firearms, which immediately starts as a huge plus, and thus these characters were often picked first, and eagerly by players. However, the other characters each brought something to the table to even this out. For instance, quite possibly the weakest character in the game had the biggest storage space, which is just as important, if not more so in some circumstances in a survival horror game than being strong in a fight.

This character was always sought after as a teammate for that reason. Much like a healer in an MMO. Another weak character, who started with no means of protection was the doctor, whom could healer quicker, and more effectively than any other character. He was also the only character with the knowledge to mix the best herb combinations for healing. But perhaps the most interesting character was the plumber. Actually considered one of the better combatants in the game, despite not starting with a real weapon. What made him special was his ability to create makeshift weaponry on the fly, for himself or the party out of junk. But also being able to repair broken weapons for other players.


And there was also a reporter who could pick locks, the only character able to do this. She was a fairly averaged out character, but had this ability and a few more smaller ones. While any character could find keys to unlock doors, she didn't have the need to. Having her on your team could save a lot of precious time in a tight situation, and in some cases completely avoid entire dangerous sections of a level by skipping past the need to hunt down keys through enemy infested areas.

The game had it's faults, the biggest being it's communication system, or lack thereof. And the oft-hated tank style oldschool RE controls. But the online component of the game was simply fantastic as a cooperative experience if you could get past those aspects. This was because no matter which character you picked, you brought something useful and unique to the experience. Weaker characters needed stronger characters to cover them in a fight, but stronger characters needed the weaker characters outside of battle to progress easily.


In this sense, the game played something akin to an MMO. Every character brought something special, and had their uses. There were no throwaways, and as long as you cooperated, even what might have originally seemed like the worst character did his or her part in a level, without question.


The key as I said it to make sure no character is worthless, to to ensure that every character has an advantage to counterbalance their disadvantage. This completely avoids scenarios where three well skilled players can completely ignore the fourth, lesser skilled player, because EVERYONE is needed in some way. If you don't agree with me on this Rob, then tell me why you enjoy Team Fortress 2 so much? Because it's biggest feature amongst other shooters in a character class mechanic.






All that said, I saw Brutal Legend's track list, and I'm hyped for a game I was otherwise passing over. Some serious, not so popular metal songs and acts will be included in the game, and that overjoys me. I decided I'd be playing the game for sure after I saw Skeletonwitch's "Soul Thrashing Black Sorcery" on the track list. Hell, I'll most likely be buying the game now. The only thing missing metal wise from the game is some true Norwegian Black Metal, like Mayhem or Burzum. Beyond that I think they've got everything covered.
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Posted 09 August 2009 - 06:58 PM

I think the difference between Valve's take on characters in TF2 and L4D is really really interesting.
and before I get into why your idea is so bad that valve purposefully didn't do it because it's so stupid, I'll answer your way by point of comparison. Some games, like chess, thrive on variety and restriction. The game isn't about using the strongest piece, but instead using all the pieces in a strong way. Team Fortress 2 is like chess in that regard. Competitive shooters are like this, generally speaking. Some games, like snakes and ladders, rely on the idea that every player is equal and gets through the game based on skill/luck/whatever the specific game demands. Imagine in Snakes and Ladders if being the red little piece of plastic meant you moved twice as many spaces as the dice dictated than any other players.

That is what Ninja Turtles is like (though it's not so radical).

Now to get back to what's really interesting is about tf2 vs l4d is that Valve realized that when you have class based restrictions like in tf2 than players begin to identify with those restrictions more than they do with the actual character. This isn't just true for shooters obviously, it's easier to remember "the dude with the big ass gun" than his character name.
I'm sure Valve thought of restricting certain weapon combinations to certain characters - but the problem there, besides needlessly restricting the player, is that we would probably be less likely to think of the character as Zoey and would be more inclined to say "the sniper chick".

Indeed, L4d would suffer greatly with your idea. Ironically, you have the best method to acheive that kind of class balance already: just organize with your team. Say you're gonna snipe, tell your buddy to be close support with a shotty. Can you imagine if only one character could use the sniper, then that person dies in a scenario would be a lot easier with a sniper? it's just silly.
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Posted 11 August 2009 - 01:48 AM

You seem to miss the point.
It's not that only one character could use the sniper, it's that one could use it better than the others.


Metal Slug 7, fun stuff.
Back into the swing of things in WoW, my Warrior has met with Outlands finally.
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Posted 11 August 2009 - 04:36 PM

I get the point, it's just that it's a stupid, horrible idea. Making one character better at the sniper rifle is silly because it grants NO benefits over the current system but instead creates needless restrictions: for example, say Bill is the sniper specialist, and you like to snipe. However, your friend who is not a great sniper decides to be bill and refuses to be anyone else. With your idea in place, you'd suffer because you wouldn't be able to snipe properly simply because you don't have the right character model.

No, bad. As it is now, the player determines the effectiveness with a sniper rifle. As we play we create the universe that the fiction takes place in; if you like to play Bill and you like to snipe than in your universe Bill is the sniper expert. Why your idea is so bad, to reiterate, is because you ARE ALREADY ABLE TO DO what you want to be able to do. You are literally trying to fix something that is not broken, and your idea for a fix is retarded and would break the game.

Besides, what kind of way would you restrict this sniper? what ways would you restrict the other classes? If bill is the sniper, is he the only one who can zoom in with the rifle? What kind of coherent reason could you give that would explain why human A can hold a gun but human B can't?

Face it Zeo, your idea stinks. L4D is far from perfect, and L4D2 is going to correct most of those issues, but your complaint about the game is just plain ignorant. I might as well argue that only Mario should be able touse red shells in Mario Kart.
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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:42 AM

Anyone can look down a scope and hold a gun. Only certain people can do it well. It takes skill and dedication to learn to properly man a rifle like that. You need steady hands, controlled breathing and pinpoint precision to actually be a sniper. Any random Joe can pick up a PSG1, if he could get ahold of one, look down the sights, and pull the trigger. But he's not going to be anywhere near as effective in this activity as a training militia sniper.

And in the front of Mario, the characters, both in and out of Mario Kart ARE unique. They each have advantages and disadvantages over the other characters. Every character has stats in Mario Kart, and they all excel in something. Luigi for example is the middle man, he's good at nothing in particular, but also not bad at anything. While Bowser has terrible acceleration speed, he's still has the overall top speed, despite what car you put him in. It's been this way since the original game on SNES.

And again, almost any game that both Mario and Luigi are playable in, they are different characters and not clones. The one exception, or two if you will are the Mario Bros. arcade game, and Super Mario Bros. on NES. Take that back, they were identical in Mario 3 as well. But they were different in Mario 2 and every other game. Even in the GBA remake of Super Mario World they're different, and even when you unlock Luigi in Super Mario Galaxy, they're different. Bad example Borbes.

And the biggest thing here is that I never even actually said characters needed an expertise in a certain weapon in L4D. I said I wish they were each unique. Like Zoey could be the fasting moving character, Francis the strongest melee wise, etc. I never gave a definite example of diversity, but something would be nice. I'm not the only one to think this, trust me. As it is, when I play online, no one plays Louis, and Zoey is the third pick. Everyone just guns for Bill or Francis, and whoever comes in last fights over the last two.





The new changes to DKs, while they were actually nerfed, have in some cases made them stronger. Unholy took a large dip in AoE damage, and Frost took a dip in damage mitigation. But Blood actually got stronger. Interesting. But it balances out, Blood is the worst tree to utilize for PVP, and that's where the single biggest problem was stemming from. What's really interesting is that now dual wielding Frost DKs are an exceptional DPS source. They weren't bad before, but now they're flat out good.

Shamans got a totem bar, I love this, and it's about time. This is something I've thought needed to happen for a long time. Too many times will a good Shaman get trashed in PVP before he can drop his full set of totems. And in PVE, it was time consuming to drop all of them one after another, with the global CDs. Now however, they set up their totem bar, press the button, and all of them are dropped at once. Much better.
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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:18 PM

The characters in l4d are unique in the way that matters most: their look and personality. Despite the absence of your example of diversity, I understood your point of uniqueness. There is no question that Valve considered the same idea as you, and in the end, they went with the wisest choice, the better choice. I'm sure you're not the only one who disagrees with valve. Lots of people think silly things.

it was a bad example because it was off the cuff and meant to show how silly your idea is. Still you miss the point though: the situation I described was not one of give and take, it would not fit in with "They each have advantages and disadvantages over the other characters" - if mario could only use the red shell he would JUST have an advantage - this is what I'm arguing against, the idea that one character is simply BETTER than others, as in TMnt: reshelled (to stay on topic). Plus, sharp reading skills would help you realize that I wasn't suggesting that mario and luigi are an example of this problem - I just picked mario kart off the top of my head and supposed a ridiculous change that is in the same line of thinking of your ridiculous "fault" with l4d.

"Everyone just guns for Bill or Francis, and whoever comes in last fights over the last two. " my advice: stop playing with idiots and douchebags. And besides, that's people fighting over aesthetic preference. They may not like Zoey as much as Francis, but they are going to be able to play the game just as well and as comfortably as Francis. If the player is frustrated because they can't play francis (I guess this would happen if you play with teenagers and high school drop outs) then that's the player's problem. If a player is frustrated because they can't play as well or as comfortably because only 1 character is worth playing and the rest are gimped, then that's the fault of the game.

Not rocket science, I suggest we decide to disagree. Feel free to get whatever last words you want out of your system zeo but at least you can rest assured that Valve has thought of your brilliant idea, probably even tested it out to see how it would work, and realized that it really didn't work as well as you think it might.

OH and to everyone who I shook my finger at for being excited about Batman Arkham Asylum... forgive me, I was a victim of years of cynicism that had caked over my heart. I played the demo last night though, and now I'm considering buying the game. I still don't like Harley's uniform, it takes away from her character a bit but I bet the average player won't even know what they're missin anyway. Gonna play it again tonight, only complaint (and it's a small one) is that I'm tempted to stay in detective mode and that seems like a waste to me since it reduces everything to basic colours.
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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:28 AM

I felt the exact same way about detective mode... Just seems like you could miss something easily without it on. And it's a huge help for using stealth to take out hostiles. I had high hopes for this game from the get go, because the team that made this also made the much underrated Urban Chaos. A fantastic shooter that almost EVERYONE overlooked sadly. Now I hear they're working on Hitman 5, and that makes me really happy. That's a series I really enjoy too.

There were two/three decent Batman games before this one, and that's it. As such, I can understand your lack of initial enthusiasm for this game. Batman on Nintendo was awesome, and it's port on the Gameboy was equally awesome. (Revenge of the Joker, not a straight port, but very similar.) And Batman Returns was a fun beat 'em up for SNES too. That's about it.

Believe me, I don't like Harley's costume nearly as much as her original either, but meh, at least she's in the game. I DO like Bane and Scarecrow's new look though.
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Posted 20 August 2009 - 06:46 AM

Got Shadow Complex since I've been hearing good things. So far it is pretty fun, but I've only played about 30 minutes. Looking forward to investing a little time into that tonight.
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 09:55 PM

Also playing Shadow Complew after hearing/seeing good things about it. I am enjoying it quite a bit. Does remind me of the greatness that was Super Metroid, however, its not Metroid. Played it for a hour or so last night, taking my time exploring, spent about an hour on it this morning, got my "My Head A-splode" achievement for headshots, hilarious. Looked at the leaderboards, and Evo is already bested my score by quite a large margin, Jerk; though not like that is a surprise. =P

Having fun with it, its been great to pass the time until the 24th at midnight when i grab my copy of Batman.

Also playing the Beta of Champions Online, its got its ups and down, I still think I like City of Heroes/Villians better, but mainly because I have sunk more time into it, and because the interface for Champions is just terrible right now; just not very user friendly. It is however a Beta, and not quite the finished product yet. We all know that MMO's release many improvements in their lifetime, so this could turn out to be a great game, like CoH/CoV, and also like CoH/CoV, I wont be dishing out the cash monthly for it, just not worth it. But its still pretty decent, and if money wasnt an Issue, I might continue playing it. For now i'll remain just the Beta tester and help the Devs out with bugs, yay.
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Posted 22 August 2009 - 02:06 AM

huh, I haven't really been trying for any scores, but I am an hour or so into the game. personally im going for the achievement where you beat the game with less than 13% of the items :D
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Posted 23 August 2009 - 10:34 PM

QUOTE (Evolution @ Aug 22 2009, 02:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
huh, I haven't really been trying for any scores, but I am an hour or so into the game. personally im going for the achievement where you beat the game with less than 13% of the items :D


lol, yea I was going to get that achievement after I finish my Hard playthrough. but yea, after I said that, it didnt take me long to beat all your scores rather quickly just playing =P
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Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:35 AM

I know I'm late to the party, but I've recently gotten into Call of Duty: World At War. Man, I feel bad for not having gotten into this until now. What a fantastic, near flawless game. The game is packed to the brim with content, and it's all excellent. The single player is brief, but awesome while it lasts, the multiplayer is honestly some of the best I've played in a bit...and then there's the Nazi Zombies mode. It's like Left4Dead Survival mode, but against nazi zombies, and with a LOT more guns and options.

Multiplayer having the customization options it has adds a lot for me. This one top of leveling up tons, and I mean TONS on guns will keep you coming back for more. Great stuff.

Working the Batman midnight release tonight, then I'm coming home to play the crap out of the game.
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Posted 24 August 2009 - 08:41 AM

lol well now it's on then DL!

not really, I, sadly, got back into WoW so Shadow Complex is gonna be a slow burn for me.

Im workin my 63 druid up to 80. and god i love that i can have flight form right away

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 04:55 PM

Well I beat Shadow Complex, 100% on Normal, got to say the ONLY thinkg holding this game back is just, well, a cheesy story, the gameplay is just great however, and is everything a Next Gen Side Scrolling Adventure game should be. There are even a couple of Items that are so hard to find, or require complex strategies to get to, they EARN the title 'Secret'. Great game, worth the $12, will continue to play it, after Batman of course, lol.

On the subject of Batman, i'll be picking up my copy from my local G$ at midnite tonight, however I was jsut there for about an hour and a half playing the full game in the PS3 Kiosk. Thats riiiiiiight~ they got an e-mail a day or two ago to put the game disc in the Kiosk's for people to play, but are not advertising it. I enjoyed every minute of it, cept for the bizarre PS3 controls; so used to the XBX controls that I keep hitting the wrong buttons for different moves. Playing off that Kiosk however puts a nasty kink in your neck after a while, SHEESH, but we endure, that we might experience greatness. So if anyone is still having doubts about the game, call up your Local G$ and ask if they have the full game disc loaded up.

Other then that, I am about to check out the Lost Planet Co-op Demo with my dad, if it sucks, then we're back to Battlefield.
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¸.-·«Wishing what once was, still was; Instead of what has become of, that which should not be.»·-.¸

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`·.¸_¸.·´¯`·.¸_¸.·´¯`·.¸_¸.·´¯`·.¸_¸.·´¯`·.¸_¸.·´

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~TheDarkArcane
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