What happened to Chivarly and Romance?

why have boys stopped by buying flowers for girls and all that Jazz?

I don't think that's true. I just think society has started to treat people who ARE chivalrous as inferior. It would be more accurate to ask why all the girls have started going after the jerks of the world than to lament the passing of the nice guy. Because... we're still around.

Being nice, and being chivalrous are not the same thing.

Being chivalrous means insisting you always have to pay the tab, you have to protect her even if she starts a fight, being chivalrous means a bunch of formalities that don't really mean anything.

Being nice means bringing her something besides flowers or chocolates, doing the dishes even though it's not part of "male duty," and actually caring how her day went.

And as for girls taking jerks, sometimes they wise up later on. Women tend to take jerks as there is a rough portion of their personality, that they've been taught to subvert. If you accept such woman as tomboyish, rather than expecting her to be a wispy violet you might have a chance even if they normally do go after the jerks.


As for "Romance" most of it, if you look hard, is actually pretty creepy. Look at the 50s music, either about ephebophilia (teenage version of pedophilia), stalking-like behavior, or disgusting "tragic deaths." It's pretty sick. You know what's romantic? Actually getting to know the person you love and playing to those attractions, not scented candles and fine wine. Fine wine to a teatotaller would actually be an affront, and scented candles to someone with allergies likewise.

girls used to get flowers ... where the hell was I?

It went off when young man starts listening to hip-hop where they refer to the ladies as B*atch. It seems that a guy who is not wearing a shirt likes wearing shiny jewelries, riding jumping cars and being rude they get half naked ladies dancing around. According to MTV at least

It was gone when a man (or boy) is judged on how pretty he is.

It was gone when feminist wants equal rights hence you dont treat a lady specially anymore.

It was gone when television began whoring romance in cheap reality TV shows.

It was gone when we judge the value of a lady by how slutty/hot she is more than who she really is inside.

It was gone when we got confused and thought that chivalry means that you have to be a different person when facing the opposite sex.

WHat happened to all that Jazz? Well apparently they are still here with me and the few people who really love it. Though all the legends are dead, there are few young ones who appreciate the sound that is more human than machine.

oh well you may not find it yet but you sure as hell can dream about it...............

Starts shining bright above you,
Night breezes seem to whisper I love you,
Birds singin’ in the sycamore trees
Dream a little dream of me

-Louis Armstrong singing Dream a little dream of me-

Louis Armstrong is the best.

Chivalry is dead. AND WOMEN KILLED IT. You see it all started with the feminist movement in the magazines about how feminist nutcases were talking about how we never treated women as equals. And to be honest they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Remember WOMEN THEMSELVES killed any special treatment men gave them.

ok slb its time to calm your self... just because we like to vote and have a say in the going-on's of the world, doesn't mean we don't like having a door opened for us... but keep in mind, women are not only capable of being romanced, they are also very much capable of romancing

Actually, for once SLB is right.

Men stop doing stuff like holding the door for women when they get sour looks for doing it, like "you're here to rape me aren't you?" or "I don't want you treating me like that, I can open my own #@&$% doors."

You know I love it when you pull this out of your butt. "Women never had the right to vote!" So many stupid feminists will say. GUESS WHAT. MOST MEN DIDN"T EITHER! What's that?! LIES AND SLANDER! But in reality the only people who COULD vote in those days were PROPERTY OWNERS. People who had a stake in the area and kept things going. Personally I also believe if women get the vote they should also be forced into the selective service. Why are you granted all privileges that men get WITHOUT the responsibility? I find that offensive.

And you think I'm going to pamper you? Dream on. You wanted equality and I give it to you. Doesn't feel so good does it? And why is it up to the man to be romancing? Why can't a woman ever be romantic? Why is the burden always on me? You act like it's a mans job to entertain you just for the simple fact that you're a woman.

this subject i agree with slb, women killed it, but despite this i still act nice because my mom raised me that way.

Personally, I perfer to practice good manners. But it gets really old really fast when you hold doors for people and either they don't say a simple "thank you" or they give you a look like they're offended by the help. Something else I noticed? If you're nice to people, people get the impression you're a rug on the floor. They try to take advantage of you. Honestly, it's pretty much annoying. You can try to be nice or chivalrous or whatever you want to call it tends to be a lose-lose situation.

Other side of the coin here, simply stop entering men like me into the selective service. Or I'll get a sex change just to get out of it (dunno if that would legally void it once you sign the form). But considering how little I actually use anyway, I'd rather be dismissed from it. I don't work, I don't vote, I'd rather forage than accept welfare, why the heck am I still obligated to serve?

The Ten Commandments of the Code of Chivalry
From Chivalry by Leon Gautier

• Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches, and shalt observe all its directions.
• Thou shalt defend the Church.
• Thou shalt repect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
• Thou shalt love the country in the which thou wast born.
• Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
• Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.
• Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
• Thou shalt never lie, and shall remain faithful to thy pledged word.
• Thou shalt be generous, and give largess to everyone.
• Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.

The Code of Chivalry
From the Rifts: England Supplement

• Live to serve King and Country.
• Live to defend Crown and Country and all it holds dear.
• Live one's life so that it is worthy of respect and honor.
• Live for freedom, justice and all that is good.
• Never attack an unarmed foe.
• Never use a weapon on an opponent not equal to the attack.
• Never attack from behind.
• Avoid lying to your fellow man.
• Avoid cheating.
• Avoid torture.
• Obey the law of king, country, and chivalry.
• Administer justice.
• Protect the innocent.
• Exhibit self control.
• Show respect to authority.
• Respect women.
• Exhibit Courage in word and deed.
• Defend the weak and innocent.
• Destroy evil in all of its monstrous forms.
• Crush the monsters that steal our land and rob our people.
• Fight with honor.
• Avenge the wronged.
• Never abandon a friend, ally, or noble cause.
• Fight for the ideals of king, country, and chivalry.
• Die with valor.
• Always keep one's word of honor.
• Always maintain one's principles.
• Never betray a confidence or comrade.
• Avoid deception.
• Respect life and freedom.
• Die with honor.
• Exhibit manners.
• Be polite and attentive.
• Be respectful of host, women, and honor.
• Loyalty to country, King, honor, freedom, and the code of chivalry.
• Loyalty to one's friends and those who lay their trust in thee.

-----------------------------------------

The Twelve Chief Rules in Love
From The Art of Courtly Love by Andreas Capellanus

• Thou shalt avoid avarice like the deadly pestilence and shalt embrace its opposite.
• Thou shalt keep thyself chaste for the sake of her whom thou lovest.
• Thou shalt not knowingly strive to break up a correct love affair that someone else is engaged in.
• Thou shalt not chose for thy love anyone whom a natural sense of shame forbids thee to marry.
• Be mindful completely to avoid falsehood.
• Thou shalt not have many who know of thy love affair.
• Being obedient in all things to the commands of ladies, thou shalt ever strive to ally thyself to the service of Love.
• In giving and receiving love's solaces let modesty be ever present.
• Thou shalt speak no evil.
• Thou shalt not be a revealer of love affairs.
• Thou shalt be in all things polite and courteous.
• In practising the solaces of love thou shalt not exceed the desires of thy lover.

The Art of Courtly Love
From The Art of Courtly Love by Andreas Capellanus

• Marriage is no real excuse for not loving.
• He who is not jealous cannot love.
• No one can be bound by a double love.
• It is well known that love is always increasing or decreasing.
• That which a lover takes against the will of his beloved has no relish.
• Boys do not love until they reach the age of maturity.
• When one lover dies, a widowhood of two years is required of the survivor.
• No one should be deprived of love without the very best of reasons.
• No one can love unless he is propelled by the persuasion of love.
• Love is always a stranger in the home of avarice.
• It is not proper to love any woman whom one would be ashamed to seek to marry.
• A true lover does not desire to embrace in love anyone except his beloved.
• When made public love rarely endures.
• The easy attainment of love makes it of little value: difficulty of attainment makes it prized.
• Every lover regularly turns pale in the presence of his beloved.
• When a lover suddenly catches sight of his beloved his heart palpitates.
• A new love puts an old one to flight.
• Good character alone makes any man worthy of love.
• If love diminishes, it quickly fails and rarely revives.
• A man in love is always apprehensive.
• Real jealousy always increases the feeling of love.
• Jealousy increases when one suspects his beloved.
• He whom the thought of love vexes eats and sleeps very little.
• Every act of a lover ends in the thought of his beloved.
• A true lover considers nothing good except what he thinks will please his beloved.
• Love can deny nothing to love.
• A lover can never have enough of the solaces of his beloved.
• A slight presumption causes a lover to suspect his beloved.
• A man who is vexed by too much passion usually does not love.
• A true lover is constantly and without intermission possessed by the thought of his beloved.
• Nothing forbids one woman being loved by two men or one man by two women.

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall/chivalry.html

If any of this sounds at all realistic, you are likely not living in the 21st century.

We are products of our environment. For one to be chivalrous they must reject the most profitable thing for the “right” thing, and since our modern world measures worth via material wealth, modernity shuns the chivalrous. It’s a product of the times. You want chivalry and romanticism? You want a different society.

Well I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with the majority of the group here. Women are no longer compelled by society to become baby pumping housewives and are now free to vote, work and pursue anything they wish in society.

Men who pay all the checks and open all the doors, are often termed "Old fashioned". If I'm correct the term being old fashioned was not a recent term either. How long can an old fashioned term be old fashioned until it is phased out?

Society is pretty slowly shifting as well, people tend to look out for themselves. If someone gets beaten up in a street nobody will help them, society is so frightened of the consequences of helping others that looking out for someone else is almost frowned on. In Singapore values where the weak are to be picked on are actually considered natural and consideration comes second.


Regardless you can still find old fashioned men out there, it's just they have to really be appreciated for their efforts. I'm not saying having sex with them all the time or something but a sincere thankyou everytime they do something nice for you enforces and rewards their behaviour

If a man is Chivarlous then he is treating a woman as if she is weak.
As a girl I believe that we kill chilvary but now we are able to get better jobs higher pay (still lower than men :( ) We really can't want both it silly to say you want to be equal to men but you want them to pamper you and look after you.

Nowadays the best form of chivarly is someone holding a door open for you which always gives me a smile.

Though nowadays it not just up to men women can be chivarlous. Also from the past our views have changed so maybe its out there just being shown in a differen't way from the days of yorn.

in one of reeds, Code of Chivalry, he posted, it states 'respect women', how is that treating them as weak? no offense this world needs some real chivalry, somebody who has the fortitude to stand up to the big companies, and defend the the people who can't stand up to them, because they don't have near the resources to take them on. stand up for the real truth, for actual justice, not this garbage that we call a legal system and honor.

I dont know bout all you people but im still one og those guys who actually buys flowers just because i can and not for any special reason. I love all my friends and since most of then are all girls this is my way of showing them how much i care for them. And the ones that have boyfriends have them all jelouse because i can do such a simple act without caring what other people think of me. Gosh cant more guys grow up.

Chivalry is seen as sexist and insensitive now that women are condemned for doing things like having children before thirty.

Romance demanded too much composure and self-control for lots of women in the past two generations- as it required them to hold out and look a certina way. Now most girls would settle for giving it out as long as they don't have to dye their hair.

Boys have stopped because the rush they once got from a smile or a " thank you" when they opened the flipping door can be replaced with self-indulgent whining about how women are so inaccessable now and how it's impossible to find one. When they litter the streets opening doors for themselves because no one else will.

Using what should be disappointment with generations of guys inticed by video games instead of working towards a goal (like a girl, a future with her and building a loving enviroment for them and future children they would be able to handle if adult infancy wasn't so amok) they settle for girls they don't respect for a while and treat them disrespectfully while hypocritically bemoaning days long past when women respected themselves.

That being said, plenty of guys hold doors open for me. And when I string more than a few sentences together with 'em they do other considerate things as well. For a while I didn't even have to get up to get a tissue to blow my nose in high school. It isn't dead- chivalry that is.

It's just been made difficult and with the drive guys have been encouraged to adopt today that's pretty much the same as killing it. Also the fact that our society- in a misguided effort to promote tolerance- shows any " old fashioned" societal norms as evil and stifling to overcompensate for discrimination doesn't help.

Also it helps to be pleasant- not that I'm assuming you aren't. I just mean if you want guys to do those things for you, you should just be yourself and be polite. It's easy to overcompensate on the toughness because you're afraid you'll seem ditzy but it's okay to say you don't know things or need help as most guys find it refreshing. It's not " playing dumb". I wrestled with that for a while because I thought it was debasing to "look weak" but nobody is perfect. Also being polite al lthe time is not "fake". Fro experience girl's commonly think that being nice means that when a guy sees you get mad he'll think you were " hiding who you really were" and other such week-minded BS. Most spoons have more emotional intelligence than that. Over-thinking the appearance of your actions really turns them into how you WANT to look rather than what you are. Which defeats the whole purpose of "Acting real" when you're really over acting. ( It is sooo late)

And also would you ever do anything nice for a guy who never accepted help and treated your offers like burning stab wounds from a hot poker? No? Big emphasis on the no.

Good post, fangirl. And on that note: I treat my girlfriend like she is delicate and precious. I open all doors for her, carry all the heavy stuff and when she falls asleep on the couch I carry her to the bed. In return she cooks great meals, keeps things orderly at home and reminds me of the splendor of a kind of sensitivity I lack. We enjoy doing these tings for each other, and we’re better people because of it.